Call and Response Ep. 47 | Hindu-Buddhist Connections and A Short Discussion of Hatred
“Once it reaches India, the vajra idea, that’s when it’s coming from, central asia, chariot warriors and so on. They were kshatriyas, you know? But when it gets into India after some time, it comes to mean this infinite, stronger than the thunderbolt is this infinite energy of love and that infinite energy of love is not violent because its, it doesn’t need violence because it’s everything. So, it’s a really wonderful Indian vision, and it’s general, both sides, all sides in India, Jain, Buddhists, Hindu. “ – Robert Thurman
KD: So, at some point, things get very bad and the negative energy gets very strong and kind of get, they all decide to attack the kingdom of Shambhala where all of us will be living at that point.
Bob: Petroleum Industry attacks them, they say.
KD: Petroleum Industry, etcetera.
Bob: They do.
KD: So, they form a big army and they get ready to attack. Now, there happens to be a king in Shambhala, in the kingdom of Shambhala, named Raudra Chakri, which means, “the wrathful one with the wheel”. Now, you know Vishnu, His weapon is the chakra, a wheel. And so He becomes aware of this, the demons and the humans and all the bad negative energy getting together and what He does is He goes into this super long trance and He gathers all His powers and when He comes out, the army of Shambhala goes out to meet the army of the bad guys and now, in the Ramayana, we’re talking about earlier, Hanuman finds Sita, comes back and then Rama goes to beat up the bad guys. And the armies of Rama kill all the other bad guys but they leave the real bad guy for Rama to kill, because He has to kill, only He can kill that guy. So, in the Kalachakra tantra, this battle begins and the king sends his two generals, this is in the text, the king sends his two generals to fight, to lead the fight against the armies and what are their names? Shiva and Hanuman. Hello. Hello are you there?
Bob: You discovered it. I didn’t even notice it.
KD: I found this in a book one day. I opened up this book. It was on a friend’s shelf and I went, “what?” So, this was in the Tibetan text, the generals of the army of Shambhala are Shiva and Hanuman; Sanskrit text, originally, and they destroy the armies, leaving only the bad guy for the king to fight and he kills the guy and then the golden age arises.
Bob: By the way, also the name of the king, Kalki, is also the name of the 10th Avatar of Vishnu.
Bob: So, it’s a similar, there’s a similar apocalyptic succession.
KD: The lineage of Shambhalic kings, the lineage of Avatars, the so-called Hindu avatars, and the lineage of the Siddhas, each incarnation is exactly the same and what we’re talking about here is Raudra Chakri, which is the Shambalic King, and then on the so-called Hindu side is the Kalki Avatar, the next Avatar, and Raudri Chakri, and where’s Maittreya in this?
Bob: Raudra Chakri’s the incarnation of Vajra Pani
KD: Vajrapani. That’s beyond my pay grade.
KD: So, then, but it’s…
Bob: Maittreya’s around. That happens later. Thousands of years later.
KD: Oh, I see, thousands of years later.
Bob: This is still Shakyamuni Buddha’s time, you know. So, Shakyamuni Buddha is seeing to it that this planet, it becomes the best platform for people to realize, Beings to realize their own true nature, which is the nature of love and wisdom. Wisdom and love, which everybody already has if they only knew. If we only knew.
KD: It all comes back to the love again. It all comes back to that. Again and again and again. That’s the way we’re made, you know? That’s the way we’re made. We’re made that way.
KD: Funny thing.
Bob: What’s that?
KD: When I was having my nervous breakdown in India, when I was going to kill myself.
Bob: The one in India.
KD: Yeah, in India, in the old days with Maharajji. So, He was teasing me about getting married all the time and I, I didn’t want to do that because I saw my other friends kind of met, you know, there and they, “oh, hey how ya doin?” and they’d come to Maharajji and He’d say, “Oh, you’re friends?” And they’d go “yeah.” “Oh, that’s really good.” The next day He’d say, “Oh, you’re good friends.” And the next day, “Ok. Boom. You’re married. Go to America.” So, America was not my idea. I was not going back so I was just avoiding that situation.
Bob: You were a Buddha and then you’re married? I couldn’t catch what you said. Are you married?
KD: No. He was teasing me about getting married, Maharajji, all the time. Teasing me.
Bob: To save you from suicide.
KD: To save me from suicide, as if that would save me. But anyway, I saw the other people get married and then he’d send them away. And I didn’t want to get sent away. So, I was just like this, “No, no no.”
Bob: I see.
KD: So, a couple of days after my breakdown, I was in the jungle by myself sitting on a rock and I thought, “Why don’t I smoke some hash?”
Bob: You had some?
KD: I had some. I wasn’t a big smoker, but it just so happened that I had a little bit and I was sitting on this nice rock in the jungle and I thought, “Ok, let’s smoke a little, this is good.” So, I took a couple of hits and I completely freaked out and I went running back to the temple into the temple, I ran into the temple, He’s sitting there inside His room with the door, with the window open waiting for me. And He goes, “Come here!”
And I went there. He said, “What’s your name?” I said, “Krishna Das.” He said, “No! You are Bajarang Bali. The thunderbolt, lightning bolt body form of Hanuman, strongest…” Bajarang Bali. “Bali” means powerful. Bajarang. “rang” means body. So, He said, “What’s your name?” I said, “Krishna Das”. He said, “Nay. Bajarang Bali. What’s your name?” “Krishna Das.” “Nay! Bajarang Bali.” We were arguing. So, I said, now Bajarang Bali, Hanuman was celibate, right? Not married, until he got to Tibet, so I said to Maharajji, I said, “Oh, ok, you want me to be Bajarang Bali, ok, but You remember, He was the eternal celibate” and He cracked up. He laughed so hard.
KD: He was slapping His thighs and laughing. It was as if He knew something that nobody else knew. I had the feeling then, long before I knew this story and then He said, “Ok, wiseguy. You’re Janaka.” Now, Janaka was Sita’s father, adopted father, and He was a Rajarishi. He was a king but he was also a saint, a realized Being. A Rishi. A Rajarishi. And He said, “Ok, you’re Janaka, you’ll have Yog and Bhog.” Bhog is worldly enjoyments and Yog is union with God. So, I said, “Ok.”
Bob: That’s good. Bajarang Bali.
KD: Bajarang Bali. Yog and Bhog.
Bob: Vajra means, Vajra is a really great word. It means “diamond” because it’s unbreakable and it can mean a thunderbolt. But it’s a wonderful thing when we come to tantra in India, where it comes to mean what they call the clear light of the void, which means, or of emptiness, which means “infinite energy of reality”, basically. But that infinite energy is the love energy and what I’m saying is that India took, from the vedic idea, in the vedas it’s not love. In the veda, vajra means a thunderbolt and it’s a weapon of Indra
KD: Yeah, Indra’s weapon
Bob: And He uses it like, to shatter citadels. And so much of the vedic mantras are war songs.
Bob: And they’re calling on Indra after He takes Soma, He goes and He shatters the citadels of their enemies and then they conquer those places. But in, but once it reaches India, the vajra idea, that’s when it’s coming from, central asia, chariot warriors and so on. They were kshatriyas, you know? But when it gets into India after some time, it comes to mean this infinite, stronger than the thunderbolt is this infinite energy of love and that infinite energy of love is not violent because its, it doesn’t need violence because it’s everything. So, it’s a really wonderful Indian vision, and it’s general, both sides, all sides in India, Jain, Buddhists, Hindu. Vajra.
Bob: So, you’re Vajra Rang Bali.
KD: Bajarang Bali
Bob Thurman: You had arguments with him (Maharajji) about your name? You talked back sometimes to your guru?
“When He first named me Krishna Das? I said, “Krishna Das”? Give me a break. Krishna Das? We’re Ram guys, I’m a Hanuman guy. What is this Krishna stuff? He just laughed. He said, “It’s ok. Hanuman served Krishna, too.”” – Krishna Das
Bob: You had the arguments with him about your name.
Bob: You had arguments with him about your name?
KD: Yeah, well, you know…
Bob: You talked back sometimes to your guru
KD: You know, playfully.
KD: Like, when He first named me Krishna Das? I said, “Krishna Das”? Give me a break. Krishna Das? We’re Ram guys, I’m a Hanuman guy. What is this Krishna stuff? He just laughed. He said, “It’s ok. Hanuman served Krishna, too.” And, in fact, it’s true. In the Mahabharata, the great battle between good and evil, when Krishna is not fighting, but He’s driving the chariot of Arjuna, the great warrior. Through the whole battle, you know, in those days, they fought with missiles, atomic weapons that they activated with the power of their mind and mantra. It wasn’t like a little arrow like Robin Hood. They shot missiles. Huge missiles at each other. And the most powerful missiles were the ones that were invoked with the most consciousness, the most attention, the most concentration. Those were the most powerful missiles. So, all through the war, all the other warriors keep getting new chariots because they’re getting blown up all the time. So, now the war’s over, the good guys have won, and Arjuna asks Krishna to drive him up on this hill and look out at the whole battlefield. So, they get up on the hill and Krishna says, “Ok, today is different than other days.” Just like, why is this night different than other nights. So, usually I get down first as your charioteer and I help you off the chariot, but today, you get off first and you run as fast as you can away from here. So, Arjun gets down and he runs away.
Krishna steps off the chariot, and then there was a white flag on top of the chariot with a red monkey in the flag, and the minute Krishna got off the chariot, the monkey flew out of the flag and disappeared in the sky and the chariot blew up in a million pieces. And Krishna says to Arjun, “Didn’t it occur to you that you didn’t have to change your chariot?” He said, “Hanuman was guarding the chariot and absorbing all the missiles.” So, there you go. Yeah.
Bob: In a way, the Tibetan Rinpoche, one Tara Tulku, His name was, He has a reincarnation who has a midlife crisis right now, but the older one, previous one, passed away in the 80s. He actually said that the hydrogen bomb, atomic bomb now is activated by the mind, by the mind of hatred. And that the trigger of it is not just the plutonium, you know, the thing, it’s another kind of bomb that kind of ignites the chain reaction. It’s the intelligence mobilized by hatred. So, the real trigger is the hatred in the mind of the person who pulled the trigger, you know? And in a way, the creating of it, the creation of it was out of hatred against its enemy. So, it still is actually activated by mind, and mantra now is the e=mc2 formula. That’s that mantra. Which is a kind of mantra, you know. Unfortunate thing. But in a way, in a way, maybe it’s like Baba Ram Das thinking of His stroke as something good, in a way, the human intelligence sort of generally, not just some semi-deities in the ancient past, but generally realizing the power of intelligence can destroy everything, you know, I kind of think of 1945, you know, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as atrocious as they were, you know, especially civilian bombing I think is terrorism, its really a bad thing, personally. That’s my personal view. But even though government does it, it’s not really a righteous thing. But I’m saying the fact that this became known in the world, that you know, where people used to feel that “my body is a really solid thing,” you know. And then there’s some atoms in there that are like hard little like, billiard balls, and you know, like, “I’m made of those things” in their mind, you know and until, of course, I die, but then, you know, you see materialists feel like that. But the idea that one’s own atoms have an energy to pulverize you instantaneously when triggered in a chain reaction. So, this is kind of a deep subliminal teaching of impermanence, of transformation, of instability that therefore, in a way, it’s a spiritual teaching and also it has war basically impossible.
KD: Impossible to survive.
Bob: They act like it is possible and they have their little ones. But once war can not escalate, you know, it has to divert into facebook. You’re not really able to have real war, you know? It’s impossible.
KD: Right. Yeah.
Bob: And my son is a little bit of a radical, and he’s been saying for years, people just push him up and tell him to run away, but he’s saying like, everybody should have a nuke. He goes around saying that. Everyone should have a nuke. Like, what’s this, U.S. and Russia and China have nukes? Let everybody have a nuke, then nobody will be able to mess around and kill each other. They could all sit there and clutch their nukes. So that weird guy with the hairdo, the other other hairdo. There’s two of them, it’s really funny. The two hairdos. You know? One of them looks a little bit like, in the cartoons they make it look like a mushroom cloud and the other one looks like, the other one looks like some kind of like weird flame thing, flame thrower.
KD: Flame thrower, yeah.
Bob: Really. And they’re both like disgustingly overweight and they’re both completely, really we have to send them love, you know. No, we do.
KD: Definitely. We must. Absolutely.
Bob: In the form of an appeal to resign. But that’s love. That is love. Just, you know, let them both move in together and let them be housemates at Mar a Lago.
KD: Yeah, yeah, that would be great, yeah.
Bob: I’m sorry. That’s off-topic. No, that’s off-topic.